Last will and testament …
Who has a will and where/how did you make it?
We had a rep from some will company or other over last night, we already have wills but they drastically need updating since they were made before we owned our own house, let alone business. And let’s not mention the fact that we found out today that the company who did our wills the first time have gone out of business 
Three years ago the company was dissolved, and we’ve been paying a small yearly fee (for any changes etc) for all that time - are they not obliged to tell you they’ve gone out of business?!!
Anyway.
I confess that I am one of these people who thinks about ‘what would happen if Steve/I died’ rather a lot - probably because I lost my own mum when I was a kid, it doesn’t seem strange to think about the consequences of one of our deaths for our children. Still, last night it really got to me for some reason 
but unfortunately we still need to get on and sort something out.
In other news today … erm, there isn’t very much 
We’ve got a teenager at work this week doing work experience, so we had to pretend to work a little bit, but we couldn’t keep it up all day, so came home after lunch and washed the conservatory roof/did some weeding instead.
Abbie had a school trip today, including a swamp walk which, along with roasting marshmallows, made it a great day out. Anna had a cello lesson after school … and tonight Joe and I have sat for a while together reading his school reading book (for once he brought home a decent one!), and doing a little bit of homework together (drawing and labelling a picture).
Steve, meanwhile, has got obsessed with the sudoku bit of Brain Training … how anyone can get that obsessed with sudoku I really don’t know. Although he says the same about ac:ww
July 11th, 2006 at 19:20
I completely understand about the Sudoku! You can get DIY will forms from W H Smiths but the business will complicate things so see your solicitor about a will. While you are doing a mortgage/house purchase is normally a good time but they will do one at any time.
July 11th, 2006 at 20:27
We have wills because I used to work for a firm of solicitors and got them cheaply! They need updating now, though, because my brother and his wife (1st choice guardians) are now divorced! We can’t think of who else to have, though.
July 11th, 2006 at 20:34
Sarah - you haven’t answered our will question. Remember?
July 11th, 2006 at 20:36
PS. Does it matter if the company that made your will has gone out of business (except you’re still paying them!). We paid a one off fee and have a copy of our will ourselves - I think our nominated executor does too. Theorectically we don’t need that solicitors services again.
July 11th, 2006 at 20:38
We’ve talked about this before
Don’t have wills - I think we probably should!
July 11th, 2006 at 20:43
Wills are for religious types. If you believe in the after-life you’re gonna have to put up with an eternity of seeing the consequences you left behind. As there is no after-life I don’t have to see the mess I left behind so no problems. Afterall the baudelaire kids did alright……
July 11th, 2006 at 20:52
Haven’t we, Ruth? I thought we did! Will email you
No, if we were still happy with the wills it wouldn’t matter that the company had gone out of business, but we were trying to contact them to have them updated, which is what the nominal fee per year was for, iyswim?
I don’t want my kids to have to deal with my mess when I die, whether I have to see it or not … neither do I want them to have to pay huge amounts of inheritance tax if I can minimise the liability by making a will.
July 11th, 2006 at 21:08
We’ve made a will so that there is no question if we die before the kids do and they’re still young - ie who gets the girls, how does the funding work, what happens to our assets etc. Unless you have obvious siblings/parents who would scoop the kids up in your absence I think it’s daft not to make one.
July 11th, 2006 at 21:20
Well - wills have been contemplated here, but we have truely nothing to leave! We don’t own a house or possessions amounting to the 250,000 which is the inheritance tax threshhold. The only treasures we leave are our precious children and in reality we are not sure who would take all 6 of them on! P.s parents are caring for aging parents. My mum is not up to the challenge. I have no siblings and P’s siblings all have families of their own (one is divorced). So, it’s too difficult and I don’t go there. I know our combined families would do their best to ensure a happy outcome - well as happy as could be.
July 11th, 2006 at 22:04
And even if you do have ‘obvious’ relatives, what happens afterwards may not be what you would have wished. I’m not sure it seems fair on those left behind to take the difficult decisions we don’t want to. I can imagine all to easily, disputes arising, even amongst well meaning families, over care of the children left behind (and presumably, in this sort of situation, the courts as well, as without a defined guardian, presumably the authorities would be the guardian at least initally?)
Sarah, I think the best plan is to try and get a recomendation from someone for local solicitor who has experince of these things. It’s not hard nowadays for even quite average families to leave behind quite decent sized estates (most of the house equity is still coverign the mortgage, but we have extra life insurance as well - plus various other savings etc.) There’s not just the IHT aspect, but how the estate left is to be used in the future to support the children.
July 11th, 2006 at 22:26
Inheritance tax….in your dreams love
July 11th, 2006 at 22:30
We have them, they off course need updating! You can do them yourselves and store them with your bank or solicitor. It doesn’t cost much to do them through your solicitor. Mine covers EVERYTHING I want to happen from when I die. I think about it so very often and don’t want my children or close ones to have to think about too much when I die. Apparently my mum has done the same.
If I manage to get old and have money I’ll give it to them when I’m still alive.
Sudoku? Yuck!
July 11th, 2006 at 22:41
I’m just curious Ros , because C and I have just been talking about this, when you say yours covers EVERYTHING, what sort of thing do you mean? How far does it go?
July 12th, 2006 at 5:04
I don’t think I’ll manage to get old and have money, particularly, but if we died tomorrow, life assurance etc would take us over the inheritance tax threshold - we think the mortgage here is in joint names which we might need to change to be tenants in common, apparently that changes things.
And we’re not particularly ‘rich’, we live in an average house, and only have a small business. Making my will now isn’t really about when I die of old age, as all sorts of things will change between now and then, it’s about protecting my children if we both died tomorrow.
Trouble is that unless you’ve dealt with things properly, whoever would end up with your kids would lose out - if I died I want the guardians of our children to be able to give them as much as possible - see what I mean? And there are ways of doing so.
Not to mention the fact that in our case we have two companies with employees which we have to deal with responsibly.
Even if there wasn’t a money/business issue I would want a will (which is why we made them 8 years ago, when we were like Paul & Caroline and literally didn’t have a penny to our names, we laughed when we did it at how ridiculous it felt) for the children’s sake, to clarify what we wanted to happen to them, as actually our wishes might not be the ‘obvious’ choice.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:36
Yeah we have talked about this before, think it might have been on my blog. And we’ve still done nothing about it! My parents havn’t either for that matter although I guess with two offspring there won’t be as much of an issue should something happen to the two of them.
SIL & BIL made wills a couple of years ago, when they asked us to be executors and the guardians of their children if something should happen. Their solicitor went through all sorts of things with them such as in the event of their death and us taking on the children would we have enough room in our house for them and if not would it be more sensible to leave their assets to us rather than in trust for the children etc.
My parents - who are our only real sensible choice for being the childrens’ guardians in the event of our deaths have already told me that should the situation arise some of our closely held lifestyle choices - for example Home Education - would not be followed through anyway, which is hard to hear. But I do feel that if our children lost both their parents at the same time (which is fairly unlikely let’s face it, not least cos we only seem to go anywhere without the children about twice a year ;-)) they’re lives would be so effected that and great changes would simply be part of their adjusting to life without us anyway.
I do think if you have business / property / belongings worth any great value a will is a good idea, if for no other reason than to prevent the vultures swooping if you have anyone who may be able to stake a claim on it and you would rather they didn’t. But I don’t believe a will has to be followed anyway does it?
July 12th, 2006 at 7:14
I think the main reason I want one is because if you don’t have one the State decides what happens. Given the general mess they make of most family affairs/money I guess I think I can make better decisions about money/kids etc myself… even if I was dead! The state also favours heavily on inheritance tax and does nothing to avoid it legitimately and lets face it there are a lot of people with assets greater than 285,000 if you bear in mind the average house across the whole UK is now nearly 200,000 and if you live down south then it is higher than that. Once you bear in mind any life assurance and the sale of all your stuff it is quite easy to exceed the threshold for many people.
Like Sarah said, this is not about dying when we are old. When we are old our children will be old enough to sort it all out anyhow. The will is for the period of time until then, when they will need some assistance in being cared for and might benefit from being cared for in line with our wishes.
BTW Chris the afterlife I believe in is all that is left living after you die and therefore a will is quite an important part of that IMO.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:14
We made some when we bought the house, just did it through the same solicitor, seemed the easiest way at the time. Although it did get very complicated, in that we weren’t married, so we made them ‘incontemplation of marriage’ with different things happening to our money etc if we were, or weren’t married at the time of death! Fortunately I think that means we don’t have to change them now, guess that can wait for kids to come along!
July 12th, 2006 at 7:48
My funeral in full detail, right down to the clothes I do and don’t want to wear, flowers and music. The type of coffin and what I want it to be lined in. How I want to be positioned. I’m slightly obsessed with death and always have been! The wake. What should happen to all my belongings, who gets what and what happens to the children. There are also letters to certain people. We also have requests to ensure that Tony’s parents access to the children is still not allowed. Tony’s is far less detailed as he couldn’t care less apart from the care of the children. The business is dealt with separatly.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:54
I can see the IHT argument? And clearly with business and employees there are other issues.
I suppose where I struggle is that I should be influencing the future of my children from beyond the grave. Once I am dead I am going to have to get used to the idea that others, not I, will be determining what is best for my children. I can see I might want to make it clear who it is I trust most to make those decisions but ultimately those decisions could be completely opposite to what I would have wanted - but hey I am dead; responsibility has passed on.
Our situation is such that it is pretty clear what would happen but actually I think (though I am wavering slightly) that it is up to the living to decide the best arrangements for the kids from day 1 onwards. I can see one might want to make that difficult decision for them but isn’t it actually their decision (I am talking our parents here), and what people decide hypothetically sipping Pimms one summer’s afternoon is not necessarily going to be the same as the harsh reality experienced after Alison and I are killed by a freak. I suppose what I am arguing is possibly that I should have a will that states that our four parents decide what happens.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:07
Yes, I think you’re right about the responsibility passing on - but it is to whom it is passed on to that is the important part, imo, which is why it’s best not left to chance.
Can’t see my will ever being as detailed as what Ros just described, I really don’t give a toss about that sort of stuff, but each to his own, eh?
I will detail some things that are important to me (jewellery passed down from my gran/mum etc) though, and those, if they are gifts, are also exempt from tax if taken out before the estate is valued, so again, worth noting. Not that mine are of any particular value, but again I’d still want to be sure that the people I want to have them have them, iyswim.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:08
WE have wills, did them with our solicitor, I don’t remember how much it cost though. I hate doing them as we have no family to look after the kids so its very depressing! Like Ros I have planned out my funeral, I did it because my Dad died when he was 50 without a will, as my mum was n.o.k she decided what to do with the funeral. We’re not married so it complicates things without a will as I’m not d.ps n.o.k legally. We update ours each time we move have a new baby, once its done I just forget about it though.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:16
But whatever happens there is a lot of chance. You can’t begin to know how people would react in reality to your and Steve’s unexpected deaths early.
IHT avoidance is such a non-issue for me; I see it as an important part of the limited wealth redistribution that is required in a civilised society
The reason, as Steve points out, that more people are edging towards IHT is because of the increases in the value of properties. In most cases people have done nothing to ‘earn’ this extra asset, apart from be able to buy a house at the right time. So the arguement that they have already paid the tax isn’t true (unless you count stamp duty). I would much prefer people paid 40% on what they left behind as a result of house inflation than see everyone pay more income tax. If everyone sought to avoid IHT then some other tax would have to be increased to fill the hole, or services cut. IHT ‘punishes’ those who can ‘afford’ it and is at least a progressive tax of sorts.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:18
Again I guess I think of a funeral as being for those left behind….therefore my say in it is irrelevant.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:19
Who are you going to leave you AC:WW towns to?
July 12th, 2006 at 8:47
Oh, good point, I’d better think long and hard about that one
Or maybe I’ll specify that they’re buried with me …
July 12th, 2006 at 8:56
I’d be more than happy to give them a go
Off to Wales now. Fingers crossed we aren’t killed on the way, with the kids miraculously surviving.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:58
Hope you have a lovely time
July 12th, 2006 at 9:28
I think it depends on if it bothers you or not, or if you have family to take over. We have friends who would step in but the children would be split up, it’s that or going into care. Friends would also have to sort funerals which is why I made plans its easier for them to hand over an envelope with eerything in to a Funeral director than have to work it out, have been there and theres lots to do. IHT I don’t see whats wrong with wanting our kids to have as much as we can leave them afterall we are asking friends to look after them not family. Not religous but we have to be practical.
July 12th, 2006 at 10:38
I think wills are pretty important especially if some joint assets are only held in sole names etc. I’ve had one since I was 18 because of the shares I own in my parents company, I had a new one drawn up when I was engaged, another I signed the day I got married, another when we separated and a last one when the divorce was final!
I will need another one now that I have the business too. It’s important to remember that guardianship of children etc can always be challenged by family members if they wish too. I think its important to think of what would happen financially if only one of you died as well. Solicitors don’t charge that much to draw them up unless you have very complicated estate and tax matters.
July 12th, 2006 at 14:19
Chris have you considered that if you died without a will it is possible that the tax bill could force Alison to sell the house to pay it? Simple wills and advice about IHT can avoid scenarios like this - mind you, you’d be dead so the you wouldn’t care anyway
July 12th, 2006 at 14:23
Actually that was ridiculous scare-mongering but it is theoretically possible (but your house would have to be a bit more expensive!)
July 12th, 2006 at 15:59
Steve, yes, theorectically possible but we’d all have to be worth circa £3/4m as a couple for that to kick in! What’s the difference between joint owners and tenants in common?
July 12th, 2006 at 16:36
We have a will that we made before DH was divorced so that should anything happen to him in the meantime I got any assets rather than his now ex. They do need updating especially since we (still) aren’t married and therefore his things won’t go to me by right. Chris, I see what you are saying about responsibility and passing it on but I am not having my kids split up or put into care if I am gone because no-one was quick enough to say “I’ll take them”. I think once I get past having dependent at home children I am making a will like Ros, my sisters have already gone round my Mums house and put their names on her ornaments (and she is only in her mid fifties!) and I don’t want my kids falling out at the very time they should be each others supports by fighting over my stuff like me and my sibs are going to over our parents LOL!
Sarah - I suggest you ring round and find someone who has experience of writing wills that involve business - perhaps ask your accountant if they can recommend someone, they seem to know all the good tips! The one who wrote ours didn’t have the first clue about it and we ended up doing most of that kind of wording ourselves IIRC although it is slightly different for us as DH has a limited company of which he is sole director and he and I employees.
July 12th, 2006 at 17:21
If I understood correctly…
Joint owners is bad - it means that inheritance tax is calculated on half the house should one of you die.
Tenants in common is good - it means that the half of the house belonging to the dead partner goes in to trust whilst the living partner is alive, thus allowing that partner to keep control of house etc and tax is only calculated on the death of remaining partner.
As far as I am aware there are no down sides so it is worth changing if you are currently joint owners (obviously consult your solicitor, i am not an expert)
July 12th, 2006 at 17:34
Confused now though after reading an inheritance tax website as they say that inhertitance tax isn’t calculated when everything goes to your spouse anyway. I don’t know - consult an expert!! We will be!
July 12th, 2006 at 18:54
I had a lawyer do mine. It cost about $100.00. You can buy will kits here in the states and do them yourself- but not sure if you can do that in other countries.
Good luck!
July 12th, 2006 at 19:26
we must do ours, and do it properly.
my parents have a very organised will, so as to minimise IHT [sorry chris!] and are tenants in common. mind you my dad is so organised that they have living wills, my sister and I hold a joint power of attourney that kicks in in circumstances x,w and z etc etc.
i think the thing in common thing steve, is so that half the estate passes to the children with the death of one spouse, but at too low an amount to kickstart IHT. as the other spouse is a tenant in common, they can’t be forced to move out to realise assest, and when they die, the rest of the money passes acroos - again at too low a rate to kick iHT
we want to do a will so that there is at least a seamless passing over of the girls to my sister, with various relatives given interfering rights! my sister will need some of the assets to buy a big enough house to house mine as well as hers in, and to provide a qaulity of life - so an income from the estate. bUT as my BIL got into some cc debt in the past [now sorted] I want to make sure said assets are not available, as although I am 99% confindent they wouldn’t be a temptation, its best to make 100% sure they can’t be. but, that if they need the money for something it could be made available.[so for relatives!]
our house plus the life insurance pushes us over IHT [surprise!]
in fact, I am at the moment worth far more dead than alive, so my depressive state reminds me when feeling gloomy. [but no intention to alter living status!]
i want a cardboard box green burial, and I guess the lark ascending played. but not that fussed.
In reality, i just do NOT want to leave my children.
i am certain my girls will be schooled if I die, and like Chris P, think their upbrining will be a matter of the family involved and too much interference in the will might make things very diffiuclt. my sister would not cope 24/7 with children as she does if they are schooled and has my parents support. so tht is what I expect she will do. I have no doubts about her abuility to love them, and make any sacrifice to do the best for them however. which is more important.
hmm, crying now so will stop.
July 12th, 2006 at 22:29
good grief, so many comments!
Sarah, you rss feed is apparently in a language firefox can’t decipher…. ho hum.
July 12th, 2006 at 22:46
That’s okay, *your* rss feed is full of weird spam!
July 13th, 2006 at 8:14
I use Firefox and the Live Bookmark works fine for this site, so presume other parts of the feed work fine.
July 13th, 2006 at 19:42
rss for comments looks fine here.